1. Hi, can you tell us about how you first got interested in Afro Cuban drumming and music? Did you hear it somewhere or did a friend or someone else turn you on to it?
I recorded a CD right at the end of the era of music CDs in 2000, before internet digital hosting became the norm. It’s called Animal Dreams. This is back when I played didjeridu. That’s the first instrument I played. Two of the musicians, Eric and Ron, who we recorded on one of my songs, were studying Cuban drumming with a guru in the mountains. They took me there and my eyes and ears were opened for the first time to the sound of the conga and to Afro-Cuban music. Dave Lyons, the guru, turned me on to Los Muñequitos, John Santos, and Grupo Afrocuba as well as an intense study of Afro-Cuban diaspora. I was so into it that I only listened to Afro-Cuban folkloric music for over 10 years.
2. What is your background in music? When did you first start playing drums? Did you play another instrument before drums? Does anyone in your family play music? Did your parents support your creative endeavors ?
I grew up in middle-class white suburban Southeastern United States. My dad’s side of the family was very musical. My grandparents actually met in a church choir before falling in love and marrying. My grandmother played her piano daily. My father trained on the piano and became good enough to win statewide competitions in his teens. Growing up in his footsteps, I took piano lessons in my teens, but hated it. So I quit after about 3 years of hunting and pecking around the keys. I never played in our school band like many who have the propensity to learn folkloric drumming.
Percussionist Dave Crowder
So, I didn’t have a formal music background, or the availability to hear authentic Latin percussion. However, as a young 8-9 year old, I would watch my favorite Sat. morning cartoons which included the Banana Splits, Archies, and the Monkees. My cultural icons as a kid were the drummers in these Saturday morning shows: Mickey from the Monkees, Jughead from the Archies, and Bingo – the ape in the Banana Splits. As stupid as it may seem, these crazies of the ’70s Sat morning cartoon rock band quartets somehow had me imagining my own rock star status.
I would beat on trash can lids and sing the banana split song “Tra la la.” One of my teachers in elementary school once wrote my mom a note, “David is going to wear out his desk playing it like a drum. Maybe you should get him a real one!” My parents took the note seriously and figured I needed some training before buying a drum. So, they had me do a few drum lessons early in my teens. And they even bought me a snare drum. But, I saw that I had to practice and work to become proficient, and I was surrounded by other kids who could already play the heck out of complete drum sets. I was discouraged and went on to other pursuits like sports, reading books, and girls.
So I quit early, and eventually moved on to the next best thing, the bass. In my high school rock “jam” band, I played bass for a while until a “real” bass player showed up and killed it. Again, I didn’t want to work at it, so I passively set the bass down.
When I left my hometown for college, I quit music altogether and it would be over 20 years before I’d ever pick up another instrument.
Dave Crowder at Casper, WY Street Fair July 4, 2014
It wasn’t until my cousin gave me a tape of a band called Outback that had a didjeridu player named Graham Wiggins who played the instrument like a drum, that I was called again by the music muse. I picked up a didjeridu and began using our method we’re using here of sharing on the internet to find others who played the instrument and began traveling across the US to the West Coast up the coast from LA to Portland playing with every prominent didjeridu player that posted on the early internet. This started in about 1991 and lasted until about 2001 – when I made a CD of everything I could do at the time. That’s when I met the drummers Eric and Ron, and eventually Dave Lyons.
3. Where are you from originally?
I was born and lived in Tennessee until I was 27 years old, when I moved to Boulder, CO.
4. Who have you studied with? How did they inspire you and what did each teacher bring to the table for you?
I would say that the main teacher who was most influential to my music education is Dave Lyons. Dave isn’t African, Cuban, or Puerto Rican, but I’d call him a musical genius. He played in loads of bands mostly as a bass player, but when Los Muñequitos came to Boulder in 1996 he sat at their feet and wrote out everything they played over a week of lessons. This is what he taught me, along with all sorts of methodology and history about the Afro-Cuban diaspora.
When I went to Humboldt for the annual Afro-Cuban Dance, Drum, and Song camp, I studied with Lázaro Galarraga for bata and song. His voice is the very reason that I sing. His approach to the music is egoless and pure. This has made a lasting effect not only on my music, but on myself as a person.
Probably the teacher I’ve studied with most on my West Coast trips is Sandy Perez. It was really frustrating at first, as I was used to Dave’s formulaic approach where you were given the context of a clave matrix, or 4 main downbeats were established when he demonstrated a drum part. But Sandy in those first several years would just show the part how he felt it. Sometimes starting with the pick-up note before any given downbeat and not necessarily the 1 of clave. Most of us stared blankly and waited to see if anyone else picked it up. But over the years, he began counting out the beat, and my own growth helped with quicker understanding of what was being demonstrated. Probably the best thing I got from Sandy is his hand technique. There’s a feel he has for a soft attack, deep tones and muffled tones, and full low sharp zero sustain basses, all with a swing and style only he can produce. I like to think I picked up some of his technique. Also, you can’t mention Sandy without bringing up his amazingly intricate inventos. Literally every time we had a lesson with him, it was something new that we had never heard. We would always be amazed how cool, different, and super unique it would be! You always felt that you were in the presence of greatness, and that he was glad to let you in on it.
Reynaldo Gonzalez was mainly a dancer, but he was an all-around-musician like none other. Many of the songs I sing come from Reynaldo. He is the padrino of a friend of mine and visited here a few times and taught mostly congas, bata, and bunches of songs. All of which I recorded and studied for many years.
Sitting behind the legendary Michael Spiro at song class at Humboldt Afro-Cuban Dance, Drum, and Song camp
Miguel Bernal is a master of timing with one of the “biggest ears” you’ll ever witness! If you were ever so slightly off in a part, he would hiss through his teeth and you either jumped back into the correct feel, or he stopped everything and corrected you. Once everyone was on track he would smile and continue demonstrating the beat in a way that you would get in the core of your being.
Jesus Diaz taught a bunch of contemporary rhythms like the marcha, songo, mambo, and pilàn.
Román Diaz taught bata mostly, but I also had an unforgettable Abakua session where I learned a bonko (lead drum) sequence that I recently came across again in a demonstration video by Manley Lopez.
John Santos may be the world’s most knowledgeable on everything Cuban Discography and diaspora. He would regale us with endless stories about those musicians who shaped the music we learned.
I had two memorable lessons with Chris Walker (aka Flaco). The first was guiro. We used the offbeat 6/8 bell, where the 1 of clave is skipped, and the lead drum plays off of the bombo note, the second 8th note in the rhythm. This pattern was locked so deeply into my psyche that I worked on it for 5 years every time I sat down at the drum. It was so tricky and mysteriously cool that I just kept working on it until I could play it with proficiency. The other thing I learned from him is a really cool low drum move in guaguancó. It starts on the first 8th note past the high drum note, and continues across clave on offbeats until it comes back to the low drum’s main note. I’ve heard a friend say, “You never forget what Chris teaches you!” And that’s certainly been the case for me.
Lázaro Pedroso – Learned several songs from him, and how to string a bata.
Francisco Aguabella – Main thing I got from him was how to play the Ararà low drum part.
David Peñalosa – Early on he was a big help in rumba parts, the main thing I remember is how to play guaguancó with tumba in right hand and segundo in the left.
Michael Spiro – Timing and exercises, as well as the “quinto lock.” It dances around the clave pattern in a particular way that rumberos use frequently.
Mike Spencer – Loads of bata work with Oro Seco and some Ararà.
Daniel Lopez – Bata and some songs, especially for Dada and Inle.
Jeff Porter – A good friend whom I call upon whenever I have a question. He always gives me a straight answer without sugar coating. A great musician!
Gary Greenberg – Lots of bata work, and some conga as well. I learned the 16th note delay in Bembe leads from him, and most of what I learned in bata.
Rob Holland – Another friend I call on for advice and jam whenever I pass through CA.
Bob Scarlett – And yet another good friend! He is responsible for the final step in the evolution of my technique. I was bouncing my hand a bit, and he reminded me of what I already knew, “Keep your hands attached to the drum throughout the entire attack on a conga drum!” It’s not a djembe where your hands raise up after the strike! You play INTO a conga, so don’t lift your hands off of it!
5. Have you traveled to study?
Only as far as Northern CA. Yes, I should have gone to Cuba, and yes, I probably should go.
6. What kind of music projects have you been working on in your career? Are you a full time musician? If not, what do you do?
Jamming at Denver City Park Pavilion April 14, 2024
I’m a retired Science teacher who geeks out on Afro-Cuban. But, now this is a loaded question which has something to do with my interest in African Folkloric music. I’ve always been interested in finding out the roots or origins of humanity. Maybe the searching for the unknown aspect of science matches up. And after discovering that the human origin story always leads us to Africa through fossil and mitochondrial DNA evidence (that means all humans are African), then I had to find out what is the oldest music on Earth. This was partly why I played didjeridu, and now drums.
7. What is your latest project? Can you please explain it in detail (like you are talking to a small child). The simpler the better. Keep in mind most people are unfamiliar with the subject matter.
The latest completed project I just did for you! The Kassa solo: https://vimeo.com/1058337092?share=copy
Before that was this one on How to Sing Barasuayo in Clave: https://vimeo.com/1057942785?share=copy
Here’s a recent bembe on Chango: https://soundcloud.com/dave-crowder-655073804/chango-larami?si=d05819b1645b4bcaa0f822cfebb7af4b&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing
And my book on Afro-Cuban Lyrics in Clave: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CVR1Q1V5
Right now I’m re-recording Ochun songs that we plan to play and sing at my friend Rapa’s wedding in GA at the end of March. I researched and found out that Ochun is the Orisha most associated with weddings and matters of love.
All of these projects provide the conditions that fit best with my tendency to be a nerd with computers, the love of music, and working to get better. I use GarageBand for recording and editing sound on my mac. I have resisted getting Pro Tools, or Cubase as I’ve found that with a good USB microphone like Samson’s G Track, basic editing software does the job nicely. Until just weeks ago I was using Camtasia for editing video, but their price went up real high and it is a double platform program where compromises were being made in the software. And, not to mention its enormous footprint in your computer’s memory. Now I’m using Mac’s high end video editing program Final Cut Pro, and Vimeo to host videos on the internet. I do have a YouTube Channel, but I hardly use it for hosting any more as I can’t stand unsolicited ads and don’t feel good about spreading crap around the world.
When I record, step one is to figure out the speed of the rhythm. I usually will take a basic percussion track from my phone’s Percussion Tutor app and transfer it to GarageBand on the Mac.
The closing crew at 47B “Da Ritz” in Boulder, CO
Then, I record light percussion first, for about four minutes. Then, layer the other drum tracks followed by vocals last. I like to get some friends to help with the coro as it fills out better when more people get involved.
With the book, I used Google Docs to write out the whole thing. Then, exported it in PDF format for Amazon Kindle Direct Publishing which my friend Jeremy Sparig had suggested. My friend James Whiting was hugely important for the early stages of the book. Many of his suggestions made it into its present form; like building the Time Unit Box format with squares. I was leaning towards open grids without the surrounding piping, but after seeing what those boxes did for a few songs, I was easily convinced. And many other suggestions of his I used, like calling the script TUBS for Time Unit Box system, the proper use of Spanish accents, and the layout of the table of contents. That’s all James! I scoured the internet for someone who had an iconic Cuban architectural image that I could use royalty free, and found a nice guy in Spain who would let me use his image. Jeremy suggested https://www.fiverr.com/ was a good place to get my book cover done. The guy who did it, Muhammed, blended my own photo of our group playing in Denver into that photo from Cuba, and voilà! That’s how it came to be! I’m leaving out all the boring stuff about the tricky ins and outs of getting your book hosted at Amazon. There are thousands of little hoops to jump through, but I’m proof that a normal person can manage.
8. What is your philosophy about learning, digesting, sharing and putting projects out in to the world?
I guess I’ve always been a teacher. I tend to be a trendsetter. I like to interact by noticing what is needed, and what I might add from my gifts that might help. I always thought I’d write a book on public school teaching. But, I didn’t because that has been done. There are millions of books on being a school teacher. Mine would just be another bit of dust no one really needs. But, a book on Afro-Cuban lyrics in clave. I’m quite sure that’s the only one. There’s a few others with European notation, but none hit all the genres. So, I saw a need, I had the notes from decades of lessons, and I had the skill to pull it off. And this music we’re studying. It’s so wonderful, yet hardly anyone has heard it. I feel the need to spread it into the world because the world is better off with it being played and enjoyed!
9. How have your projects been received?
It’s nice to get recognition. Thank you Michael for that. But, I am not a professional musician. I have no illusions. James once told me, “You’re not Lazaro Galarraga.” Absolutely not! So, I don’t put this music out thinking that I’m a great singer or drummer. These projects are all for practicing and sharing that practice with the hopes of inspiring others to work on what they like. Really, I don’t know how my projects are received.
10. If you don’t mind please talk briefly about the chants of Santería, the meaning and the positive effects.
Dave Lyons once said, “Man’s most beautiful music has always been what he sings to his gods.” I sing it because it’s beautiful. It makes me feel good. I’ve learned about the major pantheon of Orishas and feel I’ve got a pretty good overall understanding of their stories and archetypes. I try to honor their systems and methods of organization to reflect the tradition. For example, we always start a bembe with Elegua. My book reflects the order that is done in the Oro Seco rather than listed in alphabetical order. Now, I usually avoid answering questions about religion and here we’re talking about the Santería or Ifá. Religions of any kind are always surrounded with emotions and ego. Right and wrong. Opinions that divide and separate people. Let’s just say, I practice the Buddhist eightfold path. Hopefully that doesn’t offend any practitioners of Ifá.
–Dave Crowder February 2025
https://vimeo.com/user156734014